And there aren't that clearly defined definitions of those words because it is totally subjective to the person doing the judging. My ex judged my intelligence by my degree of education. Some girls I know speak more that 3 languages, have successful careers in intellectually difficult fields and still act like they're age 5 in public and everything is new and surprising to them. There are leagues" only in the sense that people have different values and expectations of the people they date. For example, since he noted preferences, as much as I find Gentleman Horndog to be a smart, cultured individual online, I am monogamous and want kids within 5 years, so it doesn't matter comment awesome he is, he's so far out of my league we aren't even playing the same sport.

I find people more intimidating than others because they have more factors that attract me than others and I want to impress them.

I was highly impressed by his intellect and wanted to impress him. In that way, he, as an academic, was outof my league. However, as a person who could hardly put an IKEA bookshelf together, he was "dating up" by being with me, a hot budding circus aerialist, seamstress, handy person who does the repairs around the house. We were on different pages as to longterm goals, hence the breakup. Leagues never had anything to do with it unless we let them. It's all about values and perception. The first phrase should read "unless the leagues tou mean are values and preferences".

Sorry, this thing zapped half my phrase and I didn't notice.

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Thank you for the compliment. Just the phrase "[S]he's out of my league" carries with it a crapload of implied value judgments. You and I are clearly a poor romantic match. So am I, as you tongue-in-cheek suggested, "out of your league" because … I dunno, you're too prudish and jealous to handle something something evolved something something enlightened blah blah infinite love?

Compatibility isn't some linear comparison between two numbers.

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It's an insanely complex interweaving of matched and mismatched personality traits, strengths and weaknesses, needs and desires, goals and aspirations. I guess I get the desire to reduce all that complexity down to a simple sliding scale, but by its very nature, such a scale can only capture a thin slice of reality.

Leveling Up: Dating Out Of Your League

Embrace the vast and unknowable complexity of it all, I say. It's way more fun, if only because it's filled with so many possibilities. It makes my idiot-slapping hand start twitching. If someone thinks that way then they are an asshole. Adults should know better than that, and if they don't then they aren't worth your time. Adults shouldn't need arbitrary rules not to take advantage of each other. No reason to fear the truth. The girls really are better than me… if you want to slice it as better than me "for my exes," or better just in an objective sense, I don't much see the difference.

If the people they move onto are better matches to them, and not in the objective sense that is important, because you can be a better match for may people in the world whether or not you think your are objectively "better". Well, I think the difference is my exes are the only guys in the world willing to date me.

If the only guys in the world who would date you can do much better than you, then it probably is time to examine your standards and make sure they are realistic. Your reasoning just became circular, your rebuttal is based on the premise. My comment was arguing that you are subjectively not as good for your exes which is ok because there are many people you could date who would find you subjectively awesome.

If they're your exes, then obviously they aren't actually in your league. If they were they wouldn't be exes. I can't understand your example.

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My mom is a hippy, artist non-housekeeper type who's uncomfortable in formal settings nor is she arm candy at nearly 60 My dad is a corporate lawyer who is the top of his field in our province. They have been married happily nearly 30 years.

There is much more to relationships than appearances and social status. My parents don't come the same social class or expected lifestyle at all but they are deleriously happy because they have other things in common. There are "leagues" in the sense that ot everyone is looking for the same thing in a partner, but they have little to do with anything except a person's individual criteria. Also, your characterisation of successful lawyers seeking trophy wives to keep ousefor them is offensive to someone who grew up with those same successful big-time lawyers,few of whom fit that stereotype… Most of them are looking for intellectually stimulating women who understand the pressures of the job, are successful in some way and love them.

Honestly, most real big lawyer parties now are catered and the housekeeper did the cleaning because the wife is a CEO or otherwise successful woman with little time for domestic affairs but enough money to pay for someone else to take care of them. Honestly, I think most young Wall Street lawyers these days are slightly dorky guys who work too much, have too much student debt, and live in terror of losing their jobs. Or at least that's what all my classmates who managed to stay Wall Street lawyers are doing.

They're more likely to be dating women who work than trophy wives, for sure. Most of them do better with women who are a little more goal-oriented than that, and I think the aspiring trophy wives of the world have their sights set higher. I think there are people who maybe have that lifestyle and are seeking a partner like that, though. I just think it's probably a few more rungs up the economic ladder. Maybe…like…old money people?

On the talent thing, one really annoying piece of dating advice that short men get a lot is a reminder that Prince is only 5'2" tall and is sexy because of his talent. A lot of short men, including myself, interpret this as saying if your short and want to be succesful with the ladies than you need to have Prince's talent level and charisma. My boyfriend is the same height I am, and I'm not a tall woman. He's not superstar-talented or Prince-famous, and he's mostly charismatic in the way that a foul-mouthed, opinionated bulldozer could be considered charismatic; he can be charming, but most of the time he's just honest instead.

He has goals and hobbies and passions that make him interesting and showcase his considerable intellect and wit. He asked to find out more about some of mine so he could understand me better; I got to introduce him to Doctor Who and yoga, and in return, he introduced me to weightlifting and multiplayer real-time strategy games. He treats me like a fully-human and individual person. He's also pretty popular "with the ladies" because he's a fun person who treats them like fully-human individuals, too. It's a thing he does to pretty much everyone, and it's many orders of magnitude more important than his height when it comes to how people perceive him.

I'm not saying his height hasn't been a disadvantage or has only had a trivial influence in his life — it's been pretty painful for him at times — but it's far from the most important thing about him or even the thing people notice first. And yeah, lots of women flirt with him, and in my opinion, they're perfectly justified in doing so.

He's smart, confident, opinionated, eloquent, open-minded, equal-opportunity in his respect for others, has a fantastic hundred-watt smile, looks great in a kilt which often IS the first thing people notice about him , and is kind to kittens. He's hot like that. I am 5'4" and my ideal date would be at or around my height, preferably no more than 5'10". Population generalizations are useless for predicting individual behaviors.

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You could try being upbeat, pleasant, and charming, instead of defensive, defeatist, and self-defeating, and have a range of interesting things about that women find attractive and interesting. I spent ten or fifteen years desperately, pathetically single, and wondered why. I was kind. I was occasionally charming. I was ostensibly pretty. As mentioned by E, I am a towering five-eight; thanks to lifting weights, I have developed some muscles, but nobody's going to mistake me for Dwayne Johnson; I look more like someone wrapped John Cryer around Bruce Willis with a hangover.

Be happy being you, and people will be happier to be around you. Would you want to hang around with someone who was always saying how much they sucked, how disappointed they were in their lot, and bemoaning what they didn't have? Christ, that's tedious. I wouldn't want to hang out with my younger self, either; that guy was an asshole.

I'm not saying my present self isn't an asshole, either, but I'm an asshole at peace with myself, though tthat doesn't mean I don't still have dissatisfactions and things I'm struggling with… but they no longer define me. Look, if you want to define yourself, you can't do it by negation, you need to do it by accretion. Fail better.

Dating out of your league? There’s no such thing

Try different shit. Keep stuff you like, pitch shit you don't. Become an interesting person, with a perspective and some insights and an appreciation for other things; be kind when you're critical and critical despite your kindness when someone, of whatever gender, mentions something new. You can be masculine. You can be androgynous. You can be tall or short, skinny or burly. Every human shape, as far as I can tell, has someone who's deeply, wickedly into it. If you want to appeal generally despite being abbreviated vertically, get to a gym and pick up some heavy shit; you'll take up more space physically as well as psychologically.

I can fill a goddamned hallway the day after I pick up five hundred pounds, because I'm confident, not because I'm three feet wide at the shoulders. All the short fellas I know who do well with women often Asian dudes for some reason have spent decent time in the gym bulking up and getting ripped.

Notifications

I'm certainly not advocating that being a gym rat is the only way to being attractive; if that's something LE doesn't enjoy after giving it a try, rather than rejecting it out of hand as cave-man testosterone poisoning[1] or as acquiescence to contemporary gender culture stereotyping or whatever; I grew up as a skinny, soccer-playing kid who couldn't put on muscle if you taped a bucket of mayonnaise to my face until my metabolism slowed down in my late 20's … doing something you resent is no way to make yourself happy, and, as previously mentioned, being angry and unhappy isn't an attractive mindset.

Basically, I'm advocating for getting to a position of comfort and confidence, because I enjoy quoting Jack Palance's Old Spice commercials from my childhood: I do go to the gym. I don't enjoy it, I find it boring but I go to stay in shape and keep my weight under control.